Smart penhold racket

[wehem]

I recently built a racket with a penhold blade. For now it's a dumb racket (hurricane 3 on the forehand and skyline 3 on the reverse backhand) to determine what will be my main looping weapon, rpb or forehand. If the penhold grip suits me, I want to turn it into a smart racket. Are long pimples on the sponge a good option for this?

[derrick 4]

First of all you need o know if are a natural penholder or not.
You natural grip is something you are born with not something you can choose.
If you are a natural-born penholder then you a smart racket is the ONLY obvious chocie lot mor emor than a shakehand racket.
Why ? Because if you are one side grip player (such as American grip or Penhold) you will eventually have full control of what rubber to use on what side one you reasonably master twiddling .
That said most penholders can also play decent shakehand but the opposite is not true.

So first check by yourselves or with a coach if you are a natural born penholder first.

Then you can decide what type rubber you want to use other than spinny inverted on one side.
Because slim (flex) pips is not the only choice for penholders (there are no "long" pips in ITTF table tennis ...only slim (flex) pips).

If you did not know Liu GuoLiang used wide pips (incorrectly known as short pips on ITTF LARC) on his forehand mostly & spinny inverted on backhand mostly & twiddled.
The current US National Women's Champion ( an RPG player) Hong Lin also uses this combination. But Liu Guoliang was more of HPG (Hybrid Penhold Grip) as he combined TPG (Traditional Penhold Grip) & RPG

But all this is not relevant for you now. First verify if penhold is your natural grip. If not you are wasting your time unless you are an exercise player or non-competitive player just playing for fun

[James Z]

Are long pimples on the sponge a good option for this?

No. Not at all. (Unless you are a semi-pro or pro chopper)

Only player who will benefit from sponge under the long pips (or ITTF slim (flex) pips) are semi-pro & pro level "away from the table" choppers.
This is because the illegally boosted loops from robotNazis are so heavy at these high levels that the ball will shoot off the wood. So at these levels the chopper needs thick songe under the pips.

Amateur players should ONLY use OX long or ITTF slim (flex) pips. The level of control & spin variations & spin contrast (against your spinny inverted on other side) of such a smart racket is far superior. An amateur player does NOT need sponge under slim (flex) or long (flex) pips. In fact it is a liability because of reduced control & less spin reversal (this may sound counter intuitive but is very true).
I have gobe thru these iterations of using spong & OX literally many hundred of time in my life.
So believe me when I say an amateur player should not use sponge for long or ITTF slim (flex) pips.

There is a theory that new players sing slim (flex) or long (flex) pips should use spong first to get used to the pips before moving OX . But this is just a waste of time. Just go directly to OX .

Keep also in mind that if you are going play RPG or HPGm you probably will use spinny inverted on your backhand. So you should no use slim (flex) pips or long (flex) pips on your forehand to start with . You want wide pips (known as short pips on ITTF LARC) or medium pips with thick sponge on your forehand like Liu Guoliang.

Of course if you want to use spinny inverted on your forehand then you can use slim (flex) or long (flex) pips of OX type on your other side. I know many advanced players who do this. There are even a few penhold choppers like this. This could also be a devastating combination becaus ethe penholder forehand loops are the most powerful. RPG loops from backhand are not as powerful but they are more effective because of the natural weird side spin angel & deception.

[wehem]

Thank you for your reply. Yesterday I tried this racket and it seems I am a natural penholder. I adapted to the TPB and RPB game very quickly and almost immediately I could even not very consistently, but doing RPB topspin and built-in side spin really confused those with whom I practiced. I also liked how easily I can do a backhandflick. Forehand has always been a weak part of my game, I took quite a long time to train it, but I still continue to hit the ball more than spin it. Even taking this into account, the forehand with penhold grip seemed more stable to me, even considering that I am used to playing with a different type of inverted rubber. In general, I understood, short pips or medium pips.

By the way, a funny moment. The robonazis in my club are strange. They are loyal to long pips, but because I simply wanted to try penhold grip, they started making fun of me there.

[derrick 4]

Forehand has always been a weak part of my game, I took quite a long time to train it, but I still continue to hit the ball more than spin it. Even taking this into account, the forehand with penhold grip seemed more stable to me, even considering that I am used to playing with a different type of inverted rubber. In general, I understood, short pips or medium pips.

So the obvious choice seems to be wide pips or medium pips with sponge on forehand and spinny inverted on the backhand ?

[Seiferm]

I adapted to the TPB and RPB game very quickly

TPG + RPG is called HPG (Hybrid Backhand Grip) used by Liu GuoLiang

I guess using TPB instead of TPG or RPB instead of RPG is also OK I am not sure

[Adria]

By the way, a funny moment. The robonazis in my club are strange. They are loyal to long pips,

I have no idea what this means because if a person is a (Click on link) robotNazi , then by defintion they cannot be loyal to long pips. They hate long pips or any pips or anti

[wehem]

By the way, a funny moment. The robonazis in my club are strange. They are loyal to long pips,

I have no idea what this means because if a person is a (Click on link) robotNazi , then by defintion they cannot be loyal to long pips. They hate long pips or any pips or anti

Well, come up with some other definition then. They, like the robonazis, believe that two inverted rubbers are the best choice, but they don't hate slim pips, but they despise penhold. I suggest calling them robotshakenazi

[wehem]

Forehand has always been a weak part of my game, I took quite a long time to train it, but I still continue to hit the ball more than spin it. Even taking this into account, the forehand with penhold grip seemed more stable to me, even considering that I am used to playing with a different type of inverted rubber. In general, I understood, short pips or medium pips.

So the obvious choice seems to be wide pips or medium pips with sponge on forehand and spinny inverted on the backhand ?

I put Yinhe Pluto on forehand/tpb yesterday. The pimples are soft, even bend a little. I read somewhere that thanks to this you can even make a slow spinny loop (I know that short/medium pimples are not for loops, but these pimples have an aspect ratio at the upper limit and light bending seems to me to allow this). Tomorrow I will see how it is.

1000009470 (1).jpg (201.92 KiB) Viewed 7833 times

[DS Alimee]

Yeah Pluto seems to be popular after all these years as a medium pips rubber for forehand. Let us know how it is working out for you

[wehem]

Yeah Pluto seems to be popular after all these years as a medium pips rubber for forehand. Let us know how it is working out for you

Today I tried the racket and was generally pleased. At first I tried to play pluto on the forehand, but it turned out that with a 1.5 mm sponge the rebound was weak. However, the destructive effect (Russian slang. This is what we call deception) on the opponent's game was strong. Pluto does not have the passive spin reversal, but the ability to easily kill the spin and shorten the ball at the same time greatly complicates the opponent's game. By the end of the training I was able to loop relatively confidently from my forehand (earlier I still learned to loop from the forehand on the shakehand, although I wrote that I can't. I relied on my long pimples and was basically just afraid to attack.) I liked Pluto on the reverse backhand. Its dead pushes and blocks during the play for the score brought me a lot of points, because opponents thought that there was topspin, but there was none, or light side spin. I also liked the ability to chop. People will write here that medium pips are not for this and blah blah blah. Look at the spinsight tests by Martin Senn. There he compares slim pips and Dr Neubauer KO Extreme OX, which is an out rubber. It showed the best results in defense. At the same time, although it has a larger contact area, the passive reversal was similar to Grass Dtecs OX, which means that the grip of the rubber was even weaker than that of Grass (since if it were the same, then the increase in the contact area would worsen the passive reversal, but this did not happen). This means that it is not so much the aspect ratio that is important, but the contact area. The larger aspect ratio of slim pips increases the contact area, but medium pips have a higher contact area. This is why KO Extreme was better than slim pips in Martin's test, even though the grip of the rubber was weaker. Pluto (current version released in 2022. Before it Pluto had weak grip) has stronger grip and my coach was even surprised how much backspin I could put into the ball. In the end, Yinhe Pluto 1.5 mm is a good rubber for all-round defense and I will probably stick with the penhold grip.

[Netdge]

Are you using jpen or cpen?
Which blade?

[wehem]

Are you using jpen or cpen?
Which blade?

Both cpen and jpen. I change the grip depending on what I need. If I want to attack or block with my pimples and the ball is going to my right - jpen, everything else - cpen with very bent fingers (something like Felix's grip). Stuor CNF CS blade

[wehem]

UPDATE: Neo semi-wide pimples didn't work for me (but objectively they are pretty good. I liked the non-linear spin generation due to the bending, but I need the spin contrast and reversal). Ordered two Reach C801 for both my rackets (shakehand and penhold)

[Tulsi]

UPDATE: Neo semi-wide pimples didn't work for me (but objectively they are pretty good. I liked the non-linear spin generation due to the bending, but I need the spin contrast and reversal). Ordered two Reach C801 for both my rackets (shakehand and penhold)

C801 should work fine as a backhand rubber for shakehand
But don't see how it will work for a penholder
Let us know how it turns out

[wehem]

UPDATE: Neo semi-wide pimples didn't work for me (but objectively they are pretty good. I liked the non-linear spin generation due to the bending, but I need the spin contrast and reversal). Ordered two Reach C801 for both my rackets (shakehand and penhold)

C801 should work fine as a backhand rubber for shakehand
But don't see how it will work for a penholder
Let us know how it turns out

I don't think it will work worse on penhold for blocking and chopblocking at the table. Quite the opposite, since with penhold you have a more powerful forehand chopblock and you can use long pips for hitting.

[Tulsi]

UPDATE: Neo semi-wide pimples didn't work for me (but objectively they are pretty good. I liked the non-linear spin generation due to the bending, but I need the spin contrast and reversal). Ordered two Reach C801 for both my rackets (shakehand and penhold)

C801 should work fine as a backhand rubber for shakehand
But don't see how it will work for a penholder
Let us know how it turns out

I don't think it will work worse on penhold for blocking and chopblocking at the table. Quite the opposite, since with penhold you have a more powerful forehand chopblock and you can use long pips for hitting.

Oh OK
I thought you said you will beusing pips on the RPH backhand only.
It should be possible to use long pips penhold for TPH blocking

Zhou Xintong is the best in the business of penhold slim (flex) pips chop blocking. She uses a slim (flex) pips and wide pips racket
Click here for Zhou Xintong YouTube videos

[Tulsi]

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[Davish]

Chinese-born Luxembourgish table tennis player Ni Xialian also has similar style.
She was on Chinese NAtional Team (CNT) long before Zhou Xintong

Ni Xialian videos

[Genevieve^^]

[wehem]

UPDATE: Neo semi-wide pimples didn't work for me (but objectively they are pretty good. I liked the non-linear spin generation due to the bending, but I need the spin contrast and reversal). Ordered two Reach C801 for both my rackets (shakehand and penhold)

C801 should work fine as a backhand rubber for shakehand
But don't see how it will work for a penholder
Let us know how it turns out

I don't think it will work worse on penhold for blocking and chopblocking at the table. Quite the opposite, since with penhold you have a more powerful forehand chopblock and you can use long pips for hitting.

Oh OK
I thought you said you will beusing pips on the RPH backhand only.
It should be possible to use long pips penhold for TPH blocking

Zhou Xintong is the best in the business of penhod slim pips chop blocking. She uses a slim pips and wide pips racket
Click here for Zhou Xintong YouTube videos

Yes, I know about her and other players in this style. She and another current provincial player inspired me. But basically I wanted to switch to penhold, because I can't get used to the fact that when playing left and middle I have one type of rubber, and the right is another. For me, it is much easier to perceive when you have a front and back side, which you can change with twiddling. And in general, I have much better control over inverted with penhold(both backhand and forehand)

[wehem]

UPDATE 2: Got used to Pluto and played today at my usual level of LP blocker (and all this time I trained only as an LP blocker, I did not have wide pimples) as an MP/SP hitter. Literally with the same score as usual I lost to those who I usually lost to as an LP blocker and also won those who I usually won. It took me only an hour to get used to it. Now I think, do I even need long pimples? Or maybe I should play just like Zhou Xintong?

[James Z]

UPDATE 2: Got used to Pluto and played today at my usual level of LP blocker (and all this time I trained only as an LP blocker, I did not have wide pimples) as an MP/SP hitter. Literally with the same score as usual I lost to those who I usually lost to as an LP blocker and also won those who I usually won. It took me only an hour to get used to it. Now I think, do I even need long pimples? Or maybe I should play just like Zhou Xintong?

If you used and MP / SP rackets I do not think it is very useful. I think it is almost aa bad as a dumb racket with minimum spin contrast.

An OX Long pips like C801 or an almost fictionless long pips (maybe Yinhe Young with 1.5 mm AR) one side and a frictionful wide pips on the other side may give the best spin contrast. (This is like Zhou Xintong)
But even a long pips one side & medium pips other side will have better spin contrast than a Medium pips / Wide pips setup

Unless you want to go with spinny inverted one side & C801 on other side for a more versatile racket with maximum spin contrast

[wehem]

UPDATE 2: Got used to Pluto and played today at my usual level of LP blocker (and all this time I trained only as an LP blocker, I did not have wide pimples) as an MP/SP hitter. Literally with the same score as usual I lost to those who I usually lost to as an LP blocker and also won those who I usually won. It took me only an hour to get used to it. Now I think, do I even need long pimples? Or maybe I should play just like Zhou Xintong?

If you used and MP / SP rackets I do not think it is very useful. I think it is almost aa bad as a dumb racket with minimum spin contrast.

An OX Long pips like C801 or an almost fictionless long pips (maybe Yinhe Young with 1.5 mm AR) one side and a frictionful wide pips on the other side may give the best spin contrast. (This is like Zhou Xintong)
But even a long pips one side & medium pips other side will have better spin contrast than a Medium pips / Wide pips setup

Unless you want to go with spinny inverted one side & C801 on other side for a more versatile racket with maximum spin contrast

You misunderstood me. I played with a racket with inverted rubber on one side and Yinhe Pluto on the other. Not with two wide pimples. When I wrote "MP/SP" I meant that Pluto is almost like typical wide pimples, only a bit bigger, and not medium pimples like Dr Neubauer KO

[James Z]

You misunderstood me. I played with a racket with inverted rubber on one side and Yinhe Pluto on the other. Not with two wide pimples. When I wrote "MP/SP" I meant that Pluto is almost like typical wide pimples, only a bit bigger, and not medium pimples like Dr Neubauer KO

I NEVER said you used two wide pimples. I said the MP/WP combination if you used it, is almots like WP/WP combination with very little spin contrast.
Anyway it is ok.
You can just update later on your progress on whatever you are testing currently

[wehem]

UPDATE: Neo semi-wide pimples didn't work for me (but objectively they are pretty good. I liked the non-linear spin generation due to the bending, but I need the spin contrast and reversal). Ordered two Reach C801 for both my rackets (shakehand and penhold)

C801 should work fine as a backhand rubber for shakehand
But don't see how it will work for a penholder
Let us know how it turns out

I don't think it will work worse on penhold for blocking and chopblocking at the table. Quite the opposite, since with penhold you have a more powerful forehand chopblock and you can use long pips for hitting.

Oh OK
I thought you said you will beusing pips on the RPH backhand only.
It should be possible to use long pips penhold for TPH blocking

Zhou Xintong is the best in the business of penhod slim pips chop blocking. She uses a slim pips and wide pips racket
Click here for Zhou Xintong YouTube videos

It looks like my RPB can be opened up a lot if I apply pressure with my thumb. The angle is good for blocking and chop blocking similar to TPB. I'm sticking with shakehand for now because the inverted rubber on my penhold is crap. Hurricane 3 is too expensive in terms of physical effort even with a booster (I didn't boost, by the way).

[wehem]

UPDATE: Tried my penhold racket with Reach C801 and Hurricane 3 in training today. I take back my words on Hurricane 3 now, I just needed to get used to it. I definitely need to relearn how to play with pimples on TPB and forehand, but the inverted rubber on forehand and RPB felt great. Blocking with pimples on RPB was not easy, but quite unexpected for opponents. I think I'll stick with this setup.
EDIT: It turned out to be a soft Hurricane 3 NEO. No wonder then why it is playable without a booster.

[wehem]

UPDATE: My technique is still imperfect (especially forehand chopblock with pimples), but overall I've gotten used to the racket. Penhold is great. My forehand may still be a weak point of my game, but with each tournament and training it gets stronger and stronger, as does my HPB. My game has changed dramatically from shakehand "use forehand rubber only as a last resort, push and block all balls with pimples" to penhold "one side is blocking, the other is attacking, after twiddling they switch places, stability in both modes is good on both sides" Opponents are quite confused by when I attack backspin balls with long pimples (as Zhou Xintong does), but it is difficult to perform it consistently, since the ball needs to be caught at the highest point like short pimples (Reach C801 can make some arc even in OX, but it is not enough)

[Genevieve^^]

EDIT: It turned out to be a soft Hurricane 3 NEO. No wonder then why it is playable without a booster.

Thanks for update.
I thought Neo had soft sponge and that is why you do not need a booster
I do not boost but had only used Neo because of this.
Does anyone know if Hurricane 9 comes in Neo version ?
I like H9 for the colors but have not tried it because I heard it is a failed product

[wehem]

EDIT: It turned out to be a soft Hurricane 3 NEO. No wonder then why it is playable without a booster.

Thanks for update.
I thought Neo had soft sponge and that is why you do not need a booster
I do not boost but had only used Neo because of this.
Does anyone know if Hurricane 9 comes in Neo version ?
I like H9 for the colors but have not tried it because I heard it is a failed product

Neo is boosted from the factory and the sponge is initially more elastic. The booster permanently softens the sponge even after it has weathered, plus it softens from wear. I don't think factory-boosting is something terrible, after all, one thin layer is applied, not two thick ones.