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Below is a table that explains the functional value of the 5 rubber types in table tennis,
This is very different for your backhand compared to your forehand mostly due to the biomechanical limitations of the backhand in any racket sport

So any rubber that is functional of forehand can become a less useful social rubber on backhand and vice versa

An extremely delusional table that doesn't take into account the difference in grips at all. Indeed, long pips are a bad idea with shakehand forehand, but with penhold forehand, OX long and slim pips are an even more powerful blocking weapon.

wehem wrote: ↑September 3rd, 2025, 3:03 am An extremely delusional table that doesn't take into account the difference in grips at all. Indeed, long pips are a bad idea with shakehand forehand, but with penhold forehand, OX long and slim pips are an even more powerful blocking weapon.

I should explain . The table is based on relative values whether forehand or backhand , shakehand or or penhold etc.
Using long (flex) pips & slim (flex) pips is the most difficult on forehand even for penhold.
On the other hand wide (stiff) pips are also the most difficult to use successfully even on forehand but theoretically it is the best rubber for your forehand.
As you are aware spinny inverted is the most popular rubber for forehand and even relatively popular for backhand but I only rated the functional value

I placed anti at 3 above slim (flex) & long (flex) pips because some older players & para players , shakehand, who never learned to loop or cannot loop for health reasons may benefit from anti on forehand and frictionless OX on backhand.

I understand why you may feel that way about slim (flex) pips & long pips for penhold forehand but it is not meant to insult slim (flex) pips or long (flex) pips but is relative functional value across entire population & probability of success.
Yes there are some penhold players who are amazing with slim (flex) pips .
Today I got to see video of a Japanese coach using only slim (flex) pips vs Aruna Quadri.
BTW these pips used my Coach do not seem to be on ITTF LARC . So I do not know if they are slim(flex) pips or long (flex) pips
Of course Zhou Xintong & Ni Xialian are legends.
I even wonder why Shan Xiaona is using wide pips both sides which makes no sense to me especially as she is older and slower and has no control mechanisms to prevent repeated barrage of loops

Maybe I should make separate tables for shakehand, penhold and American grips if warranted.
Let me think about it but thanks for pointing this out.

Denisha wrote: ↑September 3rd, 2025, 5:39 am

wehem wrote: ↑September 3rd, 2025, 3:03 am An extremely delusional table that doesn't take into account the difference in grips at all. Indeed, long pips are a bad idea with shakehand forehand, but with penhold forehand, OX long and slim pips are an even more powerful blocking weapon.

I should explain . The table is based on relative values whether forehand or backhand , shakehand or or penhold etc.
Using long pips & slim pips is the most difficult on forehand even for penhold.
On the other hand wide pips are also the most difficult to use successfully even on forehand but theoretically it is the best rubber for your forehand.
As you are aware spinny inverted is the most popular rubber for forehand and even relatively popular for backhand but I only rated the functional value

I placed anti at 3 above slim & long pips because some older players & para players , shakehand, who never learned to loop or cannot loop for health reasons may benefit from anti on forehand and frictionless OX on backhand.

I understand why you may feel that way about slim pips & long pips for penhold forehand but it is not meant to insult slim pips or long pips but is relative functional value across entire population & probability of success.
Yes there are some penhold players who are amazing with slim pips .
Today I got to see video of a Japanese coach using onl slim pips vs Aruna Quadri.
Of course Zhou Xintong & Ni Xialian are legends.
I even wonder why Shan Xiaona is using wide pips both sides which makes no sense to me especially as she is older and slower and has no control mechanisms to prevent repeated barrage of loops

Maybe I should make separate tables for shakehand, penhold and American grips if warranted.
Let me think about it but thanks for pointing this out.

Equalizing shakehand and penhold is ridiculous. I am a natural penholder (I used to play shakehand, but it took VERY little time to adapt to penhold) and let me explain the difference between a penhold forehand and a shakehand. First of all, it is the middle. With shakehand you need to twist your wrist in a very unnatural way and move a little to the left to play from the forehand with long pips. Your placement at this point is limited, as is your control (because you are uncomfortable). It feels much better when the ball goes deep to the right, but the placement is still limited compared to penhold, as is the control (our fingertips are extremely sensitive. More is on the playing area and especially on the rubber - we get more information and therefore better control) Penhold does not have this problem, you can turn the racket horizontally and use it as TPB, or turn the tip down for less sensitivity to spin and for wider placement. The same applies to when the ball goes deep to the right. It is enough to just hold it slightly turned with the tip down and you can comfortably place the ball anywhere on the table. It is also much easier to attack due to the natural openness of the racket and simply greater control (with shakehand there are only two fingers on the playing area, with penhold all four). It is very easy to punish the opponent for low lobs (the ball flies along a completely straight trajectory without spin at an average speed. If you do not overuse smashing, the opponent will not be able to adapt and each smash with long pips is a point win)
Edit: As for Kojima vs. Aruna, there is no point in taking this video seriously. Aruna is a professional, and he was just having fun with Manafy and Kojima, and if he played seriously, neither blocker would have earned a point. These are slim pips. Their limit is 70 RPS, which is not enough to cause problems for a professional. And don't forget about the spin reading skill, which the pros also have at their best. And the lack of a dampening for both blockers is also a problem (if they played Reach C801, I think they would have blocked fullpower loops without any problems)

wehem wrote: ↑September 3rd, 2025, 4:16 pm Equalizing shakehand and penhold is ridiculous. I am a natural penholder (I used to play shakehand, but it took VERY little time to adapt to penhold) and let me explain the difference between a penhold forehand and a shakehand. First of all, it is the middle. With shakehand you need to twist your wrist in a very unnatural way and move a little to the left to play from the forehand with long pips. Your placement at this point is limited, as is your control (because you are uncomfortable). It feels much better when the ball goes deep to the right, but the placement is still limited compared to penhold, as is the control (our fingertips are extremely sensitive. More is on the playing area and especially on the rubber - we get more information and therefore better control) Penhold does not have this problem, you can turn the racket horizontally and use it as TPB, or turn the tip down for less sensitivity to spin and for wider placement. The same applies to when the ball goes deep to the right. It is enough to just hold it slightly turned with the tip down and you can comfortably place the ball anywhere on the table. It is also much easier to attack due to the natural openness of the racket and simply greater control (with shakehand there are only two fingers on the playing area, with penhold all four). It is very easy to punish the opponent for low lobs (the ball flies along a completely straight trajectory without spin at an average speed. If you do not overuse smashing, the opponent will not be able to adapt and each smash with long pips is a point win)
Edit: As for Kojima vs. Aruna, there is no point in taking this video seriously. Aruna is a professional, and he was just having fun with Manafy and Kojima, and if he played seriously, neither blocker would have earned a point. These are slim pips. Their limit is 70 RPS, which is not enough to cause problems for a professional. And don't forget about the spin reading skill, which the pros also have at their best. And the lack of a dampening for both blockers is also a problem (if they played Reach C801, I think they would have blocked fullpower loops without any problems)

I don't think any attempt was made to equalize penhold and shakehand.
I only saw that Denisha were actually acknowledging that there was a difference when it was said that a different table may be needed for penhold